Index for Insanity, Inc.
Charlie Wenzel: A Study in Arrogance and Stupidity
It is absolutely amazing what can happen when you are arrogant and stupid and decide to rip people off. While it is easy to do on Ebay and nothing much will happen, when you are so stupid as to do it in a community forum the end result is far from unexpected, although the magnitude is suprising, until you realize all the people who have gotten ripped off from people like Charlie Wenzel. Now all of these people have a name and a face to hang their hatred on. This also serves as a warning to would-be scammers as to what can happen to you. There is another example link at the bottom of this page. While I don't agree with all that has been done, scammers need to understand that they bring it on themselves and that they are the one responsible for all of what happens.
On 02-Oct-2005, Charlie Wenzel decided in advance to rip someone off, this much is clear based on his own statements. He had a set of used gears that he wanted to sell and claimed that they were new. He posted the price at $100 with $15 shipping. He got a person to send him a check, which he cashed, then edited the message and claimed that the price was $125 plus shipping. The last edit of his message was on 01-Nov-2005, but on 26-Oct-2005 he had been caught with the change. If it was an honest mistake, he would not have cashed the check. He would not return the money or send the gears. After a lot of pressure, he sent a package, but the buyer refused the shipment since others found a thread on another forum which showed that the gears were used. Another person recognized his user id as the person who ripped him off and send bricks instead of the correct items. Yet another person knew that Charlie tried to rip off a gas station by getting gas and not paying. This is in addtion to the people he ripped off on Ebay.
While many people claim this is about the $25 that Charlie tried to extort from the buyer, it is not. It is not even about the $115 that the buyer paid. Charlie tries to claim that it is between him and the buyer, but it is not. What is it about? It is about a person who is so arrogant and stupid that he does not know that it is insane to try to rip off a person in a community, he does not know when the jig is up and that he has been caught and have enough sense to shut up. When a person commits a crime, fraud in this case, as well as perhaps attempted extortion, that person harms everyone. The trust between all buyers and sellers are reduced and it makes sales more difficult. Charlie was asked to send a postal money order, but instead sends one from 7-11, which according to their web page can take 30 days or so to really clear, so this will not be ending anytime soon. If Charlie had any sense at all he would have sent funds which are far more certain, like cash, a cashier's check, postal money order, etc. Considering the actions of Charlie, I personally would not be suprised if he reported the money order lost or stolen in order to not pay the money back.
Charlie Wenzel dug himself a hole and this was not just an ordinary hole because on top is an outhouse for all the world to come and visit. He sits at the bottom of this pit yelling, threatening and insulting people, trying to demand that they go away. Then he thinks that he can issue a fake apology with threats and then edit it and hope that will also go away all the while he continues to say stupid things, making threats and harassing people. Charlie has made himself the poster boy for all of the Internet scams and fraud. I personally think that this has reached critical mass and poor Charlie Wenzel is at ground zero. There is no one person which can stop this, but good ol' Charlie thinks that he can try to convince people to call all of this off. Even if the entire thread was removed, I am sure that it would pop up somewhere else.
Charlie is so stupid that he keep harassing Mike and his wife, as if they have control of all the people. I hope they report him to the police since his behaviour is unacceptable. The only way the calls are going to stop is to change the phone number, so he needs to get used to it or get a new number!!!
One post says that they talked about Charlie Wenzel in an ethics class. At least there is some good coming out of this since people are learning from the experience. I am would be willing to bet that this will go on for years since it can be hard to find such a good example to discuss.
As of 13-Nov-2005, 11:22am PST, there have been 585,458 views of the thread. At 1:00pm PST, there have been 1,658 posts and 627,386 views. Since this is a holiday weekend and most of this started just before the weekend and did not really expand until the weekend, it is clear that it is going to go a lot further. This number is just the people who came to the pirate4x4 web site and does include all the other people who have heard about this.
His "apology" thread is at:
There are numerous messages going around about this. I suspect that before this is over this issue will spread farther than all the fake email messages, worms and virues.
For people considering to scam people, you might want to realize that there are nutcases out there and you never know what the other person might do:
Many of the messages have been edited to try to keep this G-rated, using "#" to change some characters.
Some messages from Charlie Wenzel and others:
The thread title is "D60 rear 4.88s 35 spline" on www.pirate4x4.com.
This is the original message, but has been edited and the original amount of $100 was changed to $125, which is admitted later. Charlie Wenzel originally claimed that the gears were new.
These messages clearly show where this guy is coming from. How is it that he managed to cash the check and not notice that it was not the "correct" amount? A reasonable and honest person would notice that the check was the wrong amount and contact the buyer before cashing it.
Some private messages of Charlie's which were posted.
This one is priceless!!! He says that he could have accused the buyer of foul play, but since the buyer never did anything wrong, it is a funny statement.
Notice that in this message Charlie claims that the gears are "bran f##king new". Also, he admits that the original message was $100 since he says that he thought that he had put 125, not 100, which is basically an admission that he modified the original post to commit his fraud/scam. Also noticed his name calling, the reasson I point this out is because later he berates others over their name calling.
Maybe the "bran" is a typo, or maybe Charlie does not know how to spell "brand" or maybe he decided to use that word to be a bit more honest, but honesty does not seem to be something that he cares about.
sorry 25 bucks is some gas for me im in college and money is tight so dont give me sh#t and stay out of other peoples business. you guys are the ones being the jacka##es. i thought i put 125 and i accidently put 100, thats an honest mistake then i went back and changed it. i told him id give him his money back which he requessted but now he just wants the gears sounds like someone is being a little picky on the other end of this deal to me...
This is a lie. Towards the end of this thread a person drove by Charlie's parents house the the truck is there, as proven by the pictures that were posted. It is also a lie when he claims that he does not live with his parents anymore too.
The question of what can me done to him is amusing since it is clear that he had no idea of what could and would be done because of his attitude.
matts what are you gonna do that would make my like miserable? kicking me off this lame a## site wouldnt mean a damn thing to me haha losers
I find it interesting that he wants people to think that this is just a misunderstanding. I think it is clear that there is no misunderstanding, everyone knows he was trying to rip someone off by changing the price and claiming that used gears were new.
Based on the pictures which were posted, it is not true that he is 6'2" or 215 lbs. It seems that he is trying to scare people off from beating some sense into him, which did not go over at all, especially when his lie was shown. There was a link to his high school football team which showed the truth and which matches with photos.
The last line shows that he thinks that he is safe from any action against him.
ya, i have 1500 posts on a board...after being on there for like 3 years...so what?
what dogs are you gonna unleash on me bro? how bout you be a man and come see me and deal with this face to face
This is an interesting message since it is clear his words betray him. He says that "if you call my house", but then claims he does not live there. If he did not live there, most likely he would say "if you call my parents house". It seems that he is afraid that someone will tell his parents of his actions.
Also, he admits in this message that the gears are used, so what happened to "bran f##king new"?
At least he admits to his lies in this message.
want me to lie again and say they are new? geez let a guy come clean already howbout no one but me mike and matt post in here now
In this message he go off into to left field by claiming that he does not know what to do to please everyone. The buyer wanted new gears and Charlie sent him used gears. Charlie misrepresented what he was selling, as well as trying to extort more money and refusing to send either the advertised gears or return the money.
This is a prime example of his attitude. It is also clear that he counts on his parents to protect him. Do you honestly think that this kid could pay a lawyer? I suspect no lawyer would ever take the case as it is a lost cause. His actions of trying to scam people is what caused all of this, as well as his arrogant and stupid attitude.
This is classic!!! He is not trying to rip anyone off? Who is he trying to fool? The gears are used, not new and he tried to extort $25 from the buyer.
It is clear that he does not get it. It is not over until the buyer is happy. Sending the used gears does not make it over. He did end up sending a money order, but that can take up to 30 days to actually clear, so until around mid-December this will not be over.
I might also mention that Charlie decided to harass the buyer and his wife by constantly calling them, not realizing that caller-id leaves a record of his calls, trying to get them to stop others from calling. The buyer has no control of all the others.
I love this message. Charlie claims he is not trying to rip anyone off, yet in this message he admits to changing the amount that he wanted after cashing the check and confirms again that the gears are used, not new, as he previous claimed.
Charlie loves to make things up and claim that the buyer kept changing his mind. The buyer wanted the new gears for the advertised price or the money back. Then when the buyer found out that the gears were used instead of new, he just wanted his money back.
Charlie also does not understand that when he commits fraud in a community, it affects everyone.
If you don't, you will never be able to sell anything on Pirate again.
I DID WHAT HE SAID...HE CANNOT KEEP CHANGING HIS STUPID MIND. you guys are sad for writing these 5 paragraph responses. get a life geez you all ahve nothing to do with this.
Notice the name calling and the fact that he is claiming that he does not live with his parents, yet people who know him say otherwise.
no i wont do that cuz i want to be independant and make it on my own unlike u fags who think oh this is too hard im moving back
This shows the true child of Charlie. He threatens to give out information about the buyer because others are calling him and posting public information about him and his family.
Why is it so difficult to get this kid to do the right thing? He seems like a real winner, he must make his parents proud.
Wait, I thought that he said that he sold the truck.
I have to wonder what reality this kid lives in. What does he call misrepresenting what he is selling and trying to extort extra money from the buyer, after cashing the check.
There is one thing in the message that I find quite interesting. He wants/demands that the box be returned unopened. This might not seem all that strange, until you read the message from another person who says that he got a box full of bricks or something instead of what he paid for. I have to wonder what was really in the box.
On 11-04-2005, 12:33 PM you wrote:
How come you just don't get it?
I'm finally beginning to get pissed.:mad3:
And for the record, I haven't threatened, harassed, or tried to hurt you. Nor have I asked anyone to do it for me. In fact, I've asked several people not to do such things so that we can solve this maturely and legally.
Id suggest that you go down to the post office Monday morning & send me a US Postal money order for $115. You could send it Priority 2day and even request me to sign for it. I should get it by Tuesday or Wed, & all of this will be over. (Yet I doubt I or anyone else here will forget about it/you).
As for MattS. He has been most helpful. Prior to me sending him a PM about you a few weeks ago, I/We had never met, spoken, emailed, or even PM'd one another. It's his job to keep people honest on this board and to help solve disputes. Which is extactly what he's been trying to do.
i have no problem doing that. do i really need to repeat myself again? i will anyway since you people dont listen. I WAS NEVER OUT TO TRY AND F##K OVER MOCHAMIKEY i will send you your 115 tomorrow and i will show you proof of doing so. at that time i will request of you that you send me MY gears (to the address you mailed the check to) unopened since you dont want them they shouldnt be opened, a mod to delete this thread, and for everyone of you who put links to this thread in their sigs to take them out. if you want this to be handled in a "mature and legal" manner like you say you do, this shouldnt be much of a problem, now should it? and incase you all want to know. no i am not doing this because i am afraid of what mike can do to me legally or what information matthew can give you all about my family but because i can sell them to someone else for what i want. thanks guys you have been so helpful and mature about all of this! this is probably THE BEST board i have ever encountered! A+++
It is not hard to judge someone when they admit to lying, changing the original post and attempting to scam someone.
Your last response says it all. I am glad you are going to do the right thing. When that has been accomplished I will be happy and relieved. With that said, you have one of the worst deceitful, unremorseful, smart a##ed attitudes I've ever encountered. I am not condoning any particular action towards you, especially if you follow through, but will tell you this, and I know many others agree:
In no uncertain terms, you wholeheartedly deserve to have the the crap beat out of you. If it doesn't help you the first time, you need to be beaten as many times as it takes to snap you out of the sociopathic funk you are in. End of Story. Period.
it entertains me that you people judge me over the f##king internet. now come on now...thats just sad get over yourselves people and move on theres nothing more to see here GOODBYE
More name calling from the mature Charlie.
i sent the check out this morning. will be there on wednesday. sorry for the trouble(s) michael.
This is a key message where he admits that he thought he could get away with falsely claiming that the gears were new, knowing full well that the gears were used since he had them pulled from his own vehicle.
Charlie, Charlie, Charlies, when will you learn that you are not safe and you can not hide. He thinks that he can scam people on the Internet and get away with it. He was wrong, so very wrong. Perhaps he learned an important lesson, but it might haunt him the rest of his life.
This is funny too. Others find out information about him and use it against him, so he wants to be able to do the same by having people give him their information. Why can't he do the same as others did? Perhaps because he is not smart enough to do so. He does love to call people names. He also seems to try to justify his actions because he has been ripped off before. The fact is that he did take the money and not ship the gears for a long time.
What has happened is that people wanted to show him just what can be done to people like him.
Justin is a friend of Charlie. Either he is trying to defend his friend or he has been fooled in thinking that Charlie is honest when he is clearly not. A person who lives in the area said that Charlie filled a vehicle with gas and then left without paying, which is not very honest. Charlie's ebay feedback also shows that he is not very honest.
no this is actually someone who knows me unlike you people who like to judge everyone on every aspect of life over the internet which is pretty sad. yes maybe i didnt handle myself very well. did you people either...NO. pointing fingers and talking sh#t over the internet is not a very mature thing to do. this SHOULD have been handled strictly between mike and i. if he had balls to do so he should have so obviously he doesnt:eek:
It seems that Charlie Wenzel wants to be a police officer.
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