Index for Insanity, Inc.
Human Awareness Institute (HAI) hypocrites
The reason for my writing this is not to attack HAI, but to try to put some pressure on HAI to follow their mission statement, as well as doing what is right. HAI has some serious problems and if those problems were resolved, then HAI could be completely positive. Without the changes, well, HAI is just a scam/cult in my opinion. So far, it does not appear that there is any desire in HAI to change and without that desire, there will be no improvement and the problems will only get worse.
I found some interesting reading on this web site:
Although, it seems that the HAI types don't like my web page and instead like to make all sorts of claims about me, without even knowing me at all. That does not seem in keeping with the HAI Mission Statement, but that is not suprising. It is clear that HAI people like to make certain judgements of people, rather than accepting them as they are, especially when the words are what they don't want to hear. I know it is hard to get the complete picture just from text, there is so much missing, which many don't understand. I will also say that I have heard from some who have been involved in HAI who have had the same problems and understand completely what I am saying. Remember, this is just a summary.
With just a little bit of education, you can determine why a person would personally attack another. In most cases it is because they can't argue the facts and it is the only way that they feel that they can "win" the debate.
I did hear that one of the email lists did break off from HAI due to problems and disagreements. I have also heard of complaints from others, but most will not speak out.
It seems clear to me that when an organization violates its own rules and then refuses to do anything about it, there is a serious problem and that the organization is not what it claims to be. The simple fact is that you have to be the way that HAI wants you to be or they will throw you out. I have heard of others who have had the same problem, but those in HAI don't want to hear of that.
So yes, in my opinion, HAI qualifies as a cult, as well as being deceptive and dishonest, and sadly it is not what it claims to be.
There are some interesting comments on:
It seems quite clear to me that Wade does not seem to be able to read and understand simple concepts (ie. HAI admitting that they violated their mission statement, but refusing to do anything to correct it), but more important than that is that he confirms my statements regarding what HAI is vs. what it claims to be. How does "everyone" win if HAI only caters to a select group of people (godless democrats)? Wade states that he is "anti" many groups of people, so how does that serve for everyone to get along? Could Wade think that the way for everyone to win is for all those that don't agree with him to change their opinions to what he thinks is correct? This serves to show that HAI does not seem to have any desire to include everyone and instead drives those away who do not fit into what they want.
After being banned from the MI/Canada HAI group for postings I made on an unmoderated forum (Google Group) and being told I am not welcome at the upcoming L4 in MA in November I decided to check to see what sort of matches I got when I Googled Cults and Human Awareness Institute... and I was surprised at the listings.
I have done levels 1-3 and was planning to do L4&L5 this year. Now, because unnamed people complained to Norm and Debbie Whiteside who produce the MI/Canada workshops, I am banned from their location and my home location in MA for the foreseeable future.
And frankly, I don't give a damn!
Anyone considering attending a HAI workshop should ask all the questions they want at an Introduction held at various places around the country. Be sure to ask about their 'policies' about Choice and Clothing Optional exercises and the like.
Whatever you do, DO NOT GIVE OUT ANY PERSONAL MEDICAL INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE PROTECTED BY HIPPA LAWS... IT WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU AT THE EARLIEST CONVENIENCE BY THE FACILITATORS/PRODUCERS. Most of the facilitators are not licensed psychotherapists, psychologists or the like that would require professional registration with the state in which they practice.
About MANIFESTING --- that basically means someone can get up in front of a group or "request" online, that you give them potentially hundreds of dollars, which you will never see again, because they made a "request" and you are "manifesting a donation" rather than a loan with terms and conditions. Some folks in HAI are very adept at manipulating situations and people into doing things they might not normally do.
If you post anything even remotely negative about the organization you will be moderated or kicked off mailing lists and other forums moderated and unmoderated. The person making an accusation most likely won't have the balls or ovaries to contact you directly about the issue that has "come up" for them, but run to the nearest leadership and complain. This way, they isolate/insulate themselves from their accusation and you are left in a virtual "He Said, She Said" that will never be resolved.
Go ahead and try to leave the "Room of Love". That alone will earn you negative points even if you are more than 3 minutes on a potty break. If you have any sort of reaction or melt down, L1&L2 someone will come and check on you and at L3 and above, they clearly state that the staff are not going to "Rescue You". You have to seek out someone to talk with, vent, or whatever emotional reaction at the moment might be. If you decide to sit out an exercise because you are tired, hungry, too hot, too cold or whatever, you can be accused of somehow hurting someone's feelings, or that you were staring at someone when you simply glanced in their direction to look for the clock (there won't be one anywhere in sight. Only team members and facilitators are allowed to wear watches...always seemed strange to me. I made a concious choice to sit out of an exercise at L3 and some of those in attendance took offense. I was tired and triggered and Chose to not take part. My Choice apparently was not OK with some others... whatever...
Ask for your 100% 100% of the time and be ready willing and able to 'hear a No' or be faced with a strange look on the face of the other person who says nothing but stares at you for a minute and then walks away. When I asked what was wrong, I got the same reaction. I asked for my 100% online and was met with what I termed a threatening e-mail and I called the cops and filed a report on the person. Wow, So if you stand up for your civil rights, you are acting 'un HAI like' and that will get you banned.
There are many folks who have been involved with HAI for 10+ years and they are the so called 'self actualized' people who know darn well better than you what you should feel, emote, think, etc. Sounds like a cult?
How about going for 8 hours without a break for snacks and drinks... That's HAI.
This is just my $0.02... I have decided not to support an organization where someone can make an accusation or complaint and you are not allowed to face your accuser via e-mail, snail mail or phone.... I will still attend the occasional Completion Party to catch up with those I have made a connection with over the last 4 years and I won't feel compelled to do or say anything the whole time... and that's my choice.
HAI, including, but not limited to, Stan Dale supports, encourages and promotes censorship of those who do not agree with them. This is unAmerican, as well as unethical. If you want to take a workshop from HAI, you should be aware of this. I am not the only one that this has happened to and I will not be the last one either.
Without any notice or discussion, I was removed from all HAI lists even though there has never been any issues with any of the lists except one. In my opinion Stan Dale and HAI is acting unethically, without honor and with no respect. Stan Dale and HAI refuse to even say why this suddenly happened and since nothing has happened for months, there is absolutely no reason for this unprofessional behaviour and speaks of the type of people who control HAI. Read the line where Stan Dale is so generous as to let me continue to pay HAI money. I am not sure if he is stupid or so greedy that he would remove me from all the HAI email lists and then think that I would want to participate in a workshop or more importantly give him some money through HAI. The last line of the email shows that HAI refuses to allow anyone who does not completely agree with the powers that be to be part of HAI. It also convinces me that HAI is a fraud and is more like a cult that anything else. HAI defines the word "hypocrite".
Please read Stan Dale's email message at the bottom. Also note that his statements are a bit deceptive since he says that he is not willing to discuss it further, but HAI has not been willing to discuss it at all.
One thing that is funny is that Stan Dale says that I can still take the workshops (and pay HAI money), but there is a serious problem with that and he knows it. At the higher levels of the workshops there is the issue of males having to pay additional money to pay off a female for a "Gender Balance", which typically adds at least $100 to the cost of the workshop. But without being on the lists, it is impossible to arrange this and there are no scholarships for these workshops either. This again shows that Stan Dale and HAI are not being honest, ethical or fair. HAI just does not care to do the right thing and nothing will be able to force them to, other than people not going to the workshops until they follow the HAI mission statement.
In my opinion, it is best if people were to stay far away from HAI as it does not seem to be what it is claimed to be. I did not used to think that and until I got this email I thought that there was still hope for HAI to be what it is claimed to be, but this message shows that those in power don't want it to be anything other than what it has become.
I was forced on moderation because John Maguire did not like my speaking the truth about him. There has been NO recent time needed since I have not been posting anything.
It is clear it is just a matter of wanting to get rid of someone who is willing to speak out and give their opinion, see the last line of the message to confirm this.
This message also is in conflict with the HAI Mission Statement. The only world that Stan Dale wants is one in which everyone agrees with him, if you are not a Godless Liberal Democrat then he does not want you in his world.
There has NEVER been an issue with the Southern CA list, nor any other list other than the NorCal list, yet HAI has decided to remove me from all lists. What does this say about HAI? It is clear that HAI does not care about being fair or anything else other than their own selfish interests.
Stan Dale says that he is not willing to discuss it further, but he and the rest of HAI management has not been willing to discuss it at all. He is willing to abuse his power to exclude people. Could it be that he is doing this because he fears a loss of power and control of the participants? If someone has the nerve to speak out, then participants might not just blindly listen to him and that would not be good for him.
To me, this does not show HAI to be what it is claimed to be. I have to say at this point that HAI is a complete fraud.
Feel free to forward this on to anyone you want to.
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX,
HAI is really a very small business with limited resources. We rely heavily on volunteers to, create, lead, and manage many of the organization's functions. Time is very precious to all of us, yet the volunteers and the staff at HAI always find time to help keep this organization afloat. We feel that we have spent an enormous amount of resources trying to work with you, re: our mailing lists. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts at coaching you, little progress has been made.
While we are willing to go to great lengths to be inclusive, there are times when a situation moves from gray to black and white. These situations are the most difficult, but decisions need to be made so everyone can move forward. We have reached that point with you and have decided to move on. As of this moment, your access to all HAI workshopper lists is terminated. Should you choose to want to participate in workshops, you are still welcome to register. We simply need to agree to permanently disagree. This decision is final and we are not willing to discuss it further -- by phone or by email.
We wish you the best in finding another outlet for your opinions.
Stan Dale, President
Richard Enkelis, Legal Counsel
Human Awareness Institute
I sent some messages to various people in HAI asking what was going on. Basically I got no real answers, which is typical for HAI, based on my experiences. One message was quite interesting though, which was from Jonathan Prusky, who is supposedly responsible for all email lists for HAI. He (falsely) claims that I was removed from all the list for failing to follow the guidelines (HAI NorCal Guidelines. This is a bit funny, if not delusional, in that the only list that I have posted messages to was the NorCal list and I was forced to moderation after speaking the truth about the abuses of the list "owner" John Maguire. Since I was forced to moderation, just how could I fail to follow the guidelines? The fact is that I was forced to follow rules that others were not.
I was also accused of causing problems with HAI and its volunteers, both on and off list. This is funny since, as you can see below, Janet Dale, the COO of HAI, admits that HAI failed to follow the mission statement, yet refused to correct the manner. I guess when you catch people abusing their positionm, it is the fault of the victim for causing the problem since then HAI has to figure out how to deal with it.
Jonathan Prusky also claims to have followed everything, but refused to discuss anything when I told him he had the wrong information and I could prove it. It seems that it is typical for HAI to not want to discuss anything. HAI is right and if you don't agree then you are wrong.
It seems that many people in HAI have an issue with people who have different views and beliefs than them, which is funny when you consider the HAI mission statement. It seems that most of the people are anti-Religion and when a message was posted that said somethine like the Bible was only good for toilet paper, the list owner was silent, which basically showed acceptance of such intolerant and hateful messages, contrary to the list guidelines. I spoke up saying that such things were not acceptable and that got me in trouble the first time. As a side note, I went to a Jewish Funeral and out of respect I followed their traditions and customs, even though I am not Jewish. I think it shows a lack of respect to attack the views and beliefs of others unless you have provable facts.
As a last intro note, I would warn people who are not strong and don't want to think for themselves to not deal with HAI. HAI talks about choice, but then pressure people to do what HAI wants them to do. An example of this is the "clothing optional" nature of HAI workshops. If you do not take off your clothes, the HAI faciliators and other participants will say things in an attempt to pressure you into taking off your clothes. That is not real choice to me. Also, it seems to me that HAI targets "broken" and vulnerable individuals, claiming to want to help them. While this would not really be much of an issue, it is, in my opinion, when representatives from HAI tell participants that they should turn their backs on their real families and instead consider HAI to be their family. That is too much like a Cult to me to be comfortable with.
The problem is that if you are willing to stand up for what you believe and it does not match with the Godless Liberal view of HAI, then HAI does not want you in their ranks. I think there world is to remove such people.
I also think that HAI is a bit dishonest when they refuse to deal with issues of sexual harassment after a HAI event. It is so much easier to claim that it was after the event, so it is not their problem, yet those people are part of HAI.
So be careful if you want to get involved with HAI. HAI is good if you enjoy paying for being around others and indirectly paying for sex by taking the workshops and their "parties". I did not agree with their views on sex, in that I think it should be part of only a long term relationship.
The first thing to say is that if you belong to HAI, please take your head out of the sand and learn to not blindly defend HAI. Learn what the truth is and learn to be open. While you might not have experienced that others have, that does not mean that it has not occurred. Don't fall into the gang mentality and blindly defend HAI when you don't know the truth and don't want to know the truth. Try to be a bit more open than that, as HAI tries to claim be. Also, slander refers to the spoken word, not the written word, but that the truth is an absolute defense against clams of slander or libel. I would suggest that the people of HAI open their eyes and see what the reality is and put forth an effort to make the changes needed so that what is documented below becomes no longer true and is just past history, instead of the current facts.
Also, please realize that while there are issues with HAI, HAI's management and many of the people of HAI, this does not mean that all the people of HAI are bad. It also does not mean that, even those people of HAI who do the wrong thing and are unaccepting of others, the people are bad people. While the line "Hate the actions, love the person" applies, it is still important to try to get the person to correct their actions and call them on it. That is the reason for this.
The reason I wrote this is to inform others of HAI's darkside, a side that they keep hidden often because the person leaves due to issues like this. My opinion of HAI is not positive, to say the least. I consider HAI and the HAI management, specifically Janet Dale and John Maguire to be unethical, abusing their position and completely hypocritical. This convinces me that HAI is a complete fraud. What else can you consider HAI to be when Janet Dale admits that they did not follow their mission statement and did things that she did not agree with, but will not correct the matter and instead places the blame on the other party because HAI did not like what they said. HAI has refused to take action against John Maguire or Janet Dale for violating HAI's rules and polices. John Maguire violated the list rules, as well as my privacy, but HAI protects those in power, regardless of what they do.
In some recent discussions I have had with HAI management, I have to come to the conclusion that HAI is much like the Catholic Church. I was told that HAI does not believe in punishment, at least towards those in the power structure, which matches with the Catholic Church refusing to do anything about the priests, but will take action against members and throw them out of the church. Of course when I mentioned this the response was one of refusal to believe it, but the simple fact is that so far I can not find a single person in HAI management who will fairly address my concerns of abuse by HAI management members, including a clear violation of the rules and the HAI mission statement, as well as my privacy and the HAI privacy rules.
I asked Janet Dale several questions, none of which she has bothered to answer. Mostly likely this is because she can't answer them without admitting the truth. I asked why am I being forced to moderation when I never posted a message after the warning was sent (to multiple people, I was responding that the people were being inconsiderate and unaccepting of others with different view, which is what brought up the term "Godless Democrats" to describe most of the people in HAI). I asked why should I be forced to write four lengthy messages telling others about myself, which violates HAI's concept of choice and violates my privacy, especially since no one else is being forced to do so. Based on my conversations, both on the phone, email and talking to others in HAI, it is clear that Janet Dale is not in charge of HAI.
I am also wondering if HAI has the qualities normally found in a Cult, it sure seems that many of the people act like they are in a Cult. Also, from what I hear of Cults and their indoctrination, it seems to match what HAI does with their "workshops" (more on this later). It is also clear that the HAI management lives in fear, especially those that they can not control, with respect to free speech. They can not tolerate anyone who might not speak highly of them. If you read the messages below, you will see that is a major concern. They want to ensure that I work with them, not against them. The funny thing is that I would, IF they were to follow their own mission statement, rules and also do the right thing. Perhaps they fear that their control will be tainted if people can speak the truth about them. While there are some positive aspects to HAI and while it would be great if HAI was what it claimed to be, the simple fact is that is not and due to that I personally can not recommend HAI to anyone anymore, unless you are Godless Democrat (based on attacks of anyone who is not).
I would also suggest to the people who try to make HAI their whole life, that they have it be only be part of their life and incorporate the mission statement to their whole world. If you keep contained only to HAI, then you will not be able to affect others outside of HAI and you will come to think that HAI is the whole world, when that is far from the truth.
It seems that I am at a brick wall when it comes to HAI. HAI refuses to do the right thing and instead wants me to jump through their stupid hoops in order to make them happy. They refuse to do anything about John Maguire, the Norcal list maintainer, who violated HAI rules and policy by violating my privacy. This is the type of organization that HAI is. At this point I would have to say that it is best to avoid HAI and I am thinking that HAI is more of a Cult than anything else.
Several years ago I became aware of HAI, which claims to be a great group and teachs you all this great stuff. Most of it they don't want you to tell others about, partly because it is best that you don't know due to your reaction if you knew in advance and partly because if people heard what they did out of context it would give them the wrong impression. There are many positive aspects to this organization, but in my opinion the negative completely outweigh the positive, especially if your views are not in line with most of the people.
If you are religious, chances are that you will have issues with this group in many ways. They push their view of what is right when it comes to sex and it does not seem to me to be much of a choice in this respect since if you present a different view then you are subject to being an outcast. At a minimum you will be questioned and pressured to conform to what they expect.
From their website:
HAI's philosophy is summarized in the following mission statement, the basis for all of its activities:
The Human Awareness Institute (HAI) empowers individuals to be potent,
loving, contributing human beings. HAI promotes personal growth and social
evolution by replacing ignorance and fear with awareness and love.
HAI aims to create a world where people live together in dignity, respect, understanding, trust, kindness, compassion, honesty and love. The Human Awareness Institute is committed to "Creating a World Where Everyone Wins."
The last line is especially funny considering how they treat people who are not a Godless Democrat. I am not sure of what they mean by that and what such a person "wins". They do seem focused on claiming to have everyone win, even to the point of failing to do the right thing. It is more important to win than to treat people fairly and doing the right thing. They use the "everyone win" as an excuse to do nothing, to delay, to refuse to do the right thing, etc.
There are limits as to what I am willing to say here. The reason for this is for the privacy of those that have told me things. While HAI people are willing to do whatever they feel like, I am not. I am only willing to speak the truth and express my personal feelings.
After several years of being in contact with HAI people, I have to say that enough is enough. There are far too many hypocrites in HAI in my opinion. There are many good people too, but the hypocrites win out because they are far more vocal and include the top people. They just don't understand how to treat people and seem to be lacking when it comes to comment sense (which I know is not common).
There is a joke which I think applies in this case: Why should you hit your head against the wall? Because it feels so good when you stop.
At some point a person just has to admit defeat and give up. It would be far more useful and fun to talk to a wall since while you will never convince the wall of anything, the same as most HAI people, at least it will not attack you for anything you say. These people who claim all this love, seem to love to attack people and call them names when they don't agree with their view, especially when it comes to politics. The hatred is quite obvious when it comes to issues of politics.
In attending some of the workshops they talk about freedom of choice and that you are free to not do any exercise or anything which you don't want to. The problem with this is that the facilators and other participants attempt to force you to do what they think that you should. Numerous comments are made if people are not doing what HAI wants you to do.
I have also seen the facilators give advice to participants which was completely bogus and harmed the relationship with the person's family. It was said to the person that HAI was her family, implying that she should ignore her real family. It seems to me that there is more focus on making HAI your "family" than to have your real family relationships improve. One regret I do have is not standing up and saying something at the time.
One thing to be aware of if you were to decide to take a workshop is that the hours of the workshop are long. If you need your sleep, then you will be out of luck. Often the session goes to midnight and start at 8am, so when you take into account getting ready for bed and getting ready in the morning, especially if you eat breakfast, you will not have much time. While I know cults tend to have long hours in order to brainwash people, I am not sure that this is the intent in the case of HAI. As time passes, I have to wonder if HAI chooses to use the same tools that Cults do. It seems that some of the goals are the same.
In addition, I have seen the founder, Stan Dale, make statements which hurt people because of his lack of concern or consideration of those people. I even said something to him in order that he correct it, but he ignored me. I ended up speaking to the other facilator, who did do something in order to correct the situation. Later I sent email to Stan Dale and ended up getting his blow off response of "thank you". He mentioned that if someone says something which you don't like and don't agree with them the easy way to get out of the conversation is to just say "thank you". There is an example of this on TV in some commercials. One other thing that I found interesting about Stan Dale is that he seems to love to apologize for his past action of pushing products on radio. He seems to think that he was able to convince people to buy the products he was pushing even though they did not need it. Maybe he thinks people are so stupid that if he pushed a product, then they would buy it. I think part of it is that he wants you to know that he was the voice of the announcer for the Lone Ranger and other radio shows. It seems to me to be an ego issue, but it is interesting to know, even though it is often mentioned.
5. If you consent (Opt-In): Other than detailed above, HAI will contact you and
request your permission prior to sharing your data with third parties.
Generally, HAI will offer a promotional product or service on behalf of a third
party, rather than allow the third party to contact you directly. In any event,
other than detailed above, HAI will contact you at the location provided by you
at enrollment when we desire to share your information with a third party, or,
HAI will present you with a requesting that you opt-in to any third party
mailing "check-box" lists. Should you desire to "opt-out" of any such mailing
lists, simply do so by sending an e-mail to: privacy@HAI.org.
This was not done and instead most of the people on the lists got a spam message. Later, she sent an apology saying that many people wanted to opt-in instead of having to unsubscribe. So what part of the above did she not understand? HAI was obligated to follow the policy, but instead they gave out the email addresses to a third party. I use a specific email address for most of the mailing lists that I am on. Imagine my suprise when I received more spam to the address I was subscribed to their mailing list. I posted a message to the list informing people about it. I also tried to opt-out, as mentioned above, but the address "email@example.com" did not exist. Kind of funny, no privacy at hai :-).
I have also heard that this type of thing has happened before, only the names have changed. I found the following comment on their website:
Isn't it time you stopped doing the same things over and over again and hoping
for a different result?
It would be nice if they happened to read what they are supposed to stand for and what they have written, why don't they do this?
In talking to people who are more in the know than I am, I was informed that some people on the list wrote the list manager to get me removed from the list. They claimed that they feared for their safety. Since I never made any threats or anything, one must ask why would they say such things? First off I think that they are willing to do or say anything to get rid of people who don't agree with their point of view (numerous attacks on President Bush are ok, but any negative comments on Kerry is not). Second off many seem to have an irrational fear of pieces of metal. I had mentioned at one point that I like to go target shooting, which I suspect their fear comes from. I have to wonder how they deal with police!!!
There are also some who think that judges should violate the law in order to do what these wonderful HAI members think is right. This was with respect to the ruling that the Mayor of San Francisco violated the law when he issued marriage licenses to gay people. The judge followed the law, but this is not what some people of HAI wanted and they got pretty nasty when any response which did not support their position was made. For this group that is supposed to love everyone, it is funny how much they hate President Bush, even though they don't know him. They are also very willing to tell some very insulting jokes about Bush, which is ok because he is such a bad person, but don't try the same with Kerry.
At one point in time there was a discussion about religion. Instead of being accepting of those who have different views, they were attacked by people saying that if you believe in God then you are stupid. I guess HAI people think that they are smarter than most of the people in the world. It was also said that the only thing that the Bible was good for was toilet paper. This type of comment is insulting to those that do believe and to me this attitude is insulting regardless of what you believe because it shows a complete lack of tolerance and acceptance of others.
I think there was some progress made when I sent private email to this person and he realized that he was attempting to do to others what had been done to him. Through out all of this the list owner said nothing and did nothing.
While I tried to get put back on the list, the basic response back is that it will take time, even though I did not violate any rule or anything. The only thing that I am guilty of is saying that people should be more accepting of others. I guess that type of view is not acceptable in HAI. The way that they want to create a world in which everyone wins is to get rid of everyone who does not have the same views as they do.
I have received email from others which do not show HAI in a positive light, but due to privacy issues I can not present them here. Those messages convinced me that nothing is going to change in HAI and that they are not what they represent themselves to be. Some of the messages, both on the list and direct, are just personal attacks and name calling. If this was not bad enough, if you say something then others come to defend the person since the person is such a nice person and how could anyone say anything bad about them. It must be nice to be so blind.
I am not sure that HAI understands the turnover rate with respect to their organization, nor do they seem to care if people have problems with what they are doing. They are right and they will take as long as they want in order to find their win-win situation and that typically occurs when you go away so that there is no one left to object to what they are doing.
I received a quote some time ago which applies to HAI very well: "When everyone thinks alike, no one thinks very much". HAI really wants everyone to think alike.
I received an email message from Janet Dale, which she claims to be an apology, yet when you read it, it is clear is really is something else.
This is the email that Janet Dale, COO (Chief Operating Officer) of HAI, sent:
I have been thinking a lot about all the recent interactions that have occurred between you and some of our HAI web list managers and me. I know everyone is trying to do their best and it doesn't always end up that way.
Right now I am writing this to you because, I personally want to apologize to you for the actions we did that were not living to our mission statement. I don't agree with all the things we did and I am trying to find a way that will work for you and our volunteers. You had a lot of valid points and actually have assisted us to do some things better in the future. I am sorry you were the one who ended up with that role and experienced angst because of it. I am putting in place a policy that no one is removed from our lists without being told or in conversation about it. I also am going to be included in that conversation with the people involved.
In the end I don't know if we will be able to resolve things with your satisfaction. We may very well decide not and that's okay too. But I want it done in an adult manner and by being at least in conversation with each other about it. I am checking in with the list managers to see what can be done to get some completion or plan with you regarding this. Your deserve to have the dialogue and we will then see where we end up.
The main reason I wanted to email you now is to let you know I want to send
my apologies for our not knowing how
to work with you better on this.
She might consider to not do the right thing ok, to be a HAI Hypocrite, but I do not.
I also heard from another person. I was told my sentence, even though I was never found guilty, and that is a 2 month banishment from the list and then moderation after that. I also must agree to follow the rules. If I don't agree to all this and play the game the way they want, I will not be allowed back on. The problem is that I have always followed the rules and they did not. Of course the people making these decisions are not even talking to me, which it typical for these people.
These people just love to abuse their power and position and don't seem to get the joke of their actions. What an empty apology when they still refuse to do the right thing.
Here is a new draft of their mission statement so people don't have to read between the lines:
It is quite funny watching the list. I really don't think these people realize how unaccepting of others they are. It is perfectly acceptable to post jokes about religion or Republicans, but you had not do the reverse as that is just wrong.
What was even more humorous is when one person complained of being treated poorly by a group he considered to be Christians and Republicans. The funny thing is that I have had some experience with the group, although in a different location and those aspects never came up. Could it be that this person offended others by being an avid Democrat and vocal agnostic, as he stated? That should not be a problem because he was right and they were wrong, but that seems to be at odds with accepting others. I suspect he was trying to force his beliefs and opinions on others and they choose to prevent him from holding the position of power that he wanted, perhaps to push his personal agenda. I really don't think that these Godless Democrats understand such simple things as this. Many of the people told him to just walk away, but how is that creating a world where everyone wins? It is also interesting to see that based on a simple message how this person was supported and the group was cast as being bad. Not one person posted to the list that this person might be responsible due to his actions, even after stating that he was avid & vocal. I sent a direct message, but of course that was ignored since that is not what the person wanted to hear.
I guess I should expect this from Godless Democrats, but why is it that in the recent elections the Democrats can not stand it when they lose and claim a conspiracy by the Republicans and everyone else? I don't see that from the Republicans or anyone else for that matter. I guess part of it is a lack of acceptance of the outcome, a failure to realize that more people wanted something else. Do these people have any idea of where they are headed?
The bottom line is that while there are some good things about HAI, it is best to avoid them because they are unethical, liars, dishonest, deceptive and refused to deal with issues.
I received these messages from the Hypocritical HAI:
We have received your request to remove you from moderation and we are willing to meet you half way. Here is what we propose.
Over the next few months, at your own pace, we would like you to send in at least four more posts to Norcal Forum, reasonably substantial in length, that let people really see who you are. We'd like you to be truly open and visible to the list subscribers. After this has been done the moderation flag will be lifted unconditionally.
XXX, we want to give you every possible opportunity here. We have come up with this proposal as a way to give you what you want. What do you think?
It sounds like we are at the end of the road.
What you want is unacceptable to us. All we want is four emails showing
you are meeting us part way. I spoke with you in person and you agreed
you had a part in the
escalation of our situation. From our experience with you we need to
know you are willing to work with us and not against us.
I said in an email to you that we were working out what our proposal was to you and would send it when ready. We have been going over our response all this time to find a win for both of us. Resolution is not only what one person wants but what is worked out with everyone involved. If you have only one solution then you limit the outcome.
I did apologize and you didn't like the way I did it. It is not worth our time to hash over this again. It seems the only acceptable response for you was to put you back on the list un-moderated. That did not work for us. Up until now we were not willing to consider having you on the list un-moderated. Now, after many conversations we decided to trust and let go of that by only asking for a few emails from you to show you are willing to be on the list respectfully. To change that position is meeting you half way. We are open to having you on the list. Rather than staying with our no and not having you on our list we are willing to work with you and see if our list is for you. After all that's happened we want to experience you to want to work with us.
It is time to move on. Our gesture is, we are inviting you to be on our list un-moderated after receiving four emails from you. What we are asking from you is to show us you are willing to move past this as well. XXX a lot has happened with you and us. We did our best to clean up our part with you and it didn't work very well. We each had our part in this and if four emails are what stops you from proceeding that's your choice. Maybe HAI will not measure up to your standards. That's your decision to make.
You are invited to be on our list and after 4 emails that show you are willing to move on with us. After that you will be on the list just as everyone else un-moderated with the same guidelines and policies. The past will not be repeated. This is our gesture to work with you. It is up to you if you decide to work with us.
Our offer still stands, send 4 emails and then you will be back on the
list un-moderated. If you choose to do this fine, if not, goodbye XXX.
I want no more emails from you about this subject. So I am requesting you
send no more emails to me. This includes all HAI email addresses and
phone contact with us.
Yes, Janet, the only thing acceptable to me is to correct the abuse and undo what was done, which means putting me back on the list unmoderated. I have been very clear about this and said that numerous times, but I guess you have not been able to listen and understand such a simple thing. While this won't resolve the issue of all the time that has passed, nor will it resolve the violations on the part of HAI, but it is the required first step for HAI to do the right thing. Janet, you need to understand that when you do the wrong thing and abuse people, they are going to react to that. You need to learn to admit your mistakes (which you have done) AND then correct the matter, which you have failed horribly.
So it is clear that HAI refuses to admit all of their mistakes and refuses to correct their mistakes and continues to abuse people. Janet did admit some of their mistakes, which in some respects makes it worse since it then becomes unclear why they won't correct those mistakes. Due to this I have heard from others who have experienced similar attacks from HAI.
I am not sure of what valid points HAI has, but I am sure that in their mind they do. Janet Dale refuses to understand that it was all started by John Maguire abusing his position and removing me from the list. It continued by HAI's failure to respond to my request to correct the matter, getting to the point of creating this web page. Janet's claim of my making things worse is interesting, it is basically calling a spade a spade and she really does not like that.
It is quite funny that Janet Dale wants to see a gesture from me when HAI has not made any gestures at all. Janet Dale needs to realize that this will never be done until HAI corrects the situation and changes to ensure that it will not happen again. Sorry Janet, I will not honor a truce as long as HAI is continuing to abuse me. I will let everyone know what HAI is really like. Janet's last comment makes it clear that HAI does not want to correct the matter nor even communicate. When I talked to Janet on the phone she was far more reasonable, but it was clear that even though she is supposed to be the COO, she is not in charge and certainly not in control.
They refuse to tell me why I am being forced to jump through their stupid hoops when others are not. They refuse to respond to my question regarding HAI claiming to be about choice, yet they want to force me to write lengthly messages and telling things about myself so that others get to know me, thereby violating my choice and my privacy.
These are really special people. They have no concept of how to treat people. They have a nice mission statement, but the simple fact is that they talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. HAI defines the term hypocritical.
While I could do what they ask, there is a point and the principles which one should adhere to. HAI wants people to bend and let HAI control them. I will not do that.
It has also been said to me that most people who get involved with HAI are "broken". Sadly, this seems to be true. These people just don't seem to get it. They also don't believe in free speech since many in the cult of HAI think that I should be prevented from speaking the truth and they want this web page removed.
As a last note, if you want to pay for sex and/or pay for "friends", then join HAI and attend their workshops and "parties". HAI requests a "donation" to attend a "party", which might violate the law in some places. I doubt that they have considered that, nor would they care. The money is typically in addition to having to bring something. I also have to wonder what some of the places would do if they knew what HAI did at their places, especially when they use a summer camp which have children during the summer. HAI survives only by keeping what they do secret, just like a Cult.
I received a message from the list owners, I suspect it was from John Maguire, but he choose to hide who he was. He accused me of violating the list rules and threated me with moderation or removal from the list. My offense was that I replied to a message which I thought was important to read again since it was an open and accepting message. There is a rule which says to not just say "me too" and include the complete message. Technically I did not violate the rule, but I should not have sent it, especially with the previous abuse by John Maguire. He did say that they were going to decide what to do, but in typical HAI they have not communicated anything to me. I also sent a message asking if they had taken action on all the other messages that very day which were a direct violation of the rules, but again I have not heard anything. It seems to me that it is just an example of selective enforcement of the rules and continue abuse of power by John Maguire and HAI. It does amaze me that HAI allows their people to hide when they send nasty messages.
Here is part of the message that I got, which I can post here because it was not sent to the list, there is a rule against forwarding email which was sent to the list, so I can not include the complete message:
From our guidelines on http://www.hai.org/mailman/listinfo/norcal:
>Don't quote an entire message and just add "me too" to the end of it.
This is not allowed but it is exactly what you did. When we allowed you back on the list you agreed to abide by the guidelines. We went the extra mile for you to try and make this work and gave you every possible opportunity to succeed here. We did this to try and create a win-win - not to give you more opportunities to violate our guidelines.
You are being contacted today to allow you to provide input into our decision making process. Our options include among other things putting you back on moderation or removing you from the list altogether. We will not wait a long time before making our decision so we would appreciate your comment promptly. Thank you.
Barry Smiler and John Maguire Norcal Co-managers
I apologized, but I also said that I thought that the message was a bit nasty and not in keeping with HAI. It was amazing how many messages actually violated the rule that day, which I am sure they did not do anything about. The problem is that they don't care about the others, they just want to attack those that they don't agree with. I had best be careful with this people since they have shown how they are.
This is the rule which is claimed that I violated:
CONTENT: Please post only things you have written yourself. Do not re-post
jokes, petitions, and virus warnings. Don't quote an entire message and just
add "me too" to the end of it. If you must quote from another message, please
don't quote the entire message. Edit it down the minimum. On line discussions
about the suitability of another's post or of a particular subject (AKA
meta-discussions) are discouraged. If you believe that someone's post is
inappropriate please directly contact the list manager and the author of the
post; do not post this to the list.
This is what I said (excluding the quoted message):
I think that is the biggest problem with discussing politics on this list (the last sentence).
I quoted the whole thing in hopes that people will re-read what you said!!!
The last line, reworded so I don't get in trouble, is:
Do we love only those who completely agree with us on every issue and despise
those who have a different view?
Perhaps the list owners and HAI don't want to be told to not be so nasty and want people to attack those with different views.
A short time ago I received an email from a HAI person who found my site and was quite upset by it and her response perhaps shows what she has learned from HAI, or maybe it is just the type of person that HAI tends to attract. A word of warning to those who write email, anything you say can and will be used against you if you say something stupid.
This is her first message:
I had a beautiful experience at HAI and so did everyone else in my room. My
buddy made note of the fact that she said 'no' to doing an exercise and that
everyone CELEBRATED her using her own voice. No one forced anyone to do
anything. There was much healing, love and joy and that room, and many
tears of release of pain, including mine.
I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. I wish you wouldn't spread your negativity, but would instead consider that you are an outlier. I wish you happiness.
One thing that I noticed with this message is that she assumes that she saw everything that occurred in the room. When I did a workshop I heard another participant make a comment in which he was trying to get another person do something, ignoring the person's choice. Few would have heard it, but this person somehow knows everything that occurred. It must be nice to be all knowing.
There is another problem, I never said I had "such a negative experience", I just said that I noticed numerous issues. It is also nice that she wants me to consider that I am an "outlier", ignoring the fact that I have talked to others with similar experiences and have similar problems. Without information, she decided that I must be an "outlier" and did not want me to inform people of some of the problems with HAI, or as she said it "spread your negativity". I guess it is better to ignore everything negative and not try to improve and correct problems. This is quite funny when you consider all the negative comments HAI people say towards those they don't like, such as President Bush. She also claimed to know that I had a negative experience, which is not true, just that there are some serious issues which need to be fixed.
It is interesting that this person, along with others, don't care much for the concept of free speech.
I replied to her message with this text:
I have seen a facilitator say things which were flat out wrong and harmful to the relationship with the person's family.
So, no, it is not an isolated experience. I wish HAI would change and correct the problems, but so far they choose not to. It would be great if everything that I say were to not longer happen/exist, but so far that is not the case.
I personally think that people need to see the reality and be ready and able to stand up for themselves and their choices, as well as realize that HAI is not the end all organization.
I think you might want to reconsider your request. I have made a choice to speak my mind, yet you refuse to honor and respect that, even if you do not agree. It is quite interesting that often the people of HAI talk the talk, but only if it meets their view.
What I suggest that you do is to open your eyes and when you see things which are not right, that you speak up. I have seen Stan Dale hurt others and refuse to correct it, but fortunately the other facilitator did. Realize that no organization is 100% perfect and it is only by knowing of what is wrong that it can be corrected.
Then, in what seems far too often typical of HAI people, I got this response from her:
Amazing that you did not once acknowledge my experience or my reality,
though I took the time to do the same for you. You are very close-minded
and clearly stuck in your head. I am sorry you will never feel what it
feels like to truly be alive. What a shame. And I'm aware that your mind
will probably use this email as more fuel to doubt the truth. I wish you
Here is another personal growth website that you will doubt, but that could also bring you healing: http://www.avatarepc.com
What pain you must have experienced in your life to come through an experience like HAI and not have your heart opened. Remarkable.
Notice the personal attacks and her continued claims of knowing everything about me, someone who she has never met nor every talked to and only knows me from the web page and one email.
I was shocked that she would demand that I should acknowledge her experience, which I did and which, due to her attack, she missed. Is this what people are learning in HAI? How to blindly defend HAI and attack those who say things which they do not agree with? It almost seems like brainwashing and a cult mentality.
I did get this message after responding to her:
I have to say, I apologize. I re-read your letter, and I did now see that
you said you were glad I had a good experience. I truly apologize. I don't
know how I missed it. I'm sorry I came down so hard. I just had such a
wonderful experience, and I felt so frustrated that someone would say
something negative about the most love I had ever experienced.
Please accept my apology. I am truly sorry.
I wish you the best.
She also claimed at one point that I was ignoring the truth, basically saying that I was wrong in what I have seen. That is a scary concept, to think that people can go to a workshop and so blindly defend any and all actions from the organization, thinking that it can do no wrong at all. After a while the conversation got more reasonable, although some issues continued.
Throughout the conversation with her she complained that I was not willing to present both sides of HAI, even though I said the purpose of the web page is to inform others of the problems in HAI, not to do a complete review of all aspects of HAI, hopefully to correct the problems. She does not seem to understand that at all.
I did offer to allow her to write what she was requesting, but she now refuses to communicate with me. As a background, she claims to be very attractive, also saying that ALL men are interesting in only one thing with her. She mentioned that she would be travelling to where I live, so I offered to meet her for dinner. She accused me of wanting to meet her just because of her looks, which is a bit of a problem since I have never seen her or any pictures or anything, and asked if I made that offer just because of her looks. I responded that was not a factor since she lived in another state, which I mentioned and knew because of web logging. She asked me to be honest and I was, but she could not handle the truth. To use her words, "freaked out", so you will not see all the wonderful, positive things about HAI. Maybe it was that she did not like the rejection and being wrong about assuming that people just do things because of her looks. Perhaps she is attractive physically, as she says, but she does not seem attractive as far as her personality.
One of her major concerns was that some of the people would be scared off after reading what I have said, that they would not be strong enough to go if they knew anything negative. My concern is that those people could also be harmed by going and that that need to be aware that HAI is not perfect. If people are so weak that they could be scared off by my web page, I think they need to get professional help so as to avoid getting brainwashed and cause further harm to them. HAI can help in many ways, but it is not perfect and it can also harm people in my opinion.
Another person I talked to from HAI was complaining about President Bush saying that the wage that would be paid for repairing New Orleans could be reduced. I have not heard the details of what that means, so I asked this person what was the money being reduced from and to, but they did not know. If the rate was reduced from $100/hour to $90/hour, that is not a big deal and in fact would seem to be quite a high pay rate. If the rate was reduced from $20/hour to $5/hour, then perhaps they would have a valid complaint, but the fact is that they don't know, yet are still complaining. It seems it is easy to attack without the facts. If they found out the rate, perhaps they would complain about that too as it would be too high.
I will say that many of my opinions of HAI and the people who are involved with HAI were confirmed with this discussion. While HAI talks about love, it is clear that if you don't agree with these people they show a completely different side.
Perhaps I should just give up on HAI, but the concept and the thought is a good idea.
The HAI list owners (aka dictators) don't seem to like those who disagree with their friends. They also consider it acceptable to see semi-anonymous email messages to people and refuse to admit to who is sending the email message. I guess they feel that it is easier to attack someone when the person does not know who exactly is doing it.
I sent this paragraph to them:
and received this back in response:
If you notice it does not address the request, but that is standard practice with them.
In their message they claimed to know how I was feeling, which was wrong and means that they were making false claims. Due to this, I posted a message asking for feedback from others, mentioning the negative message I got from the list owners. This was done to confirm or deny other claims which the list owners claimed. My reading of the replies that I got only go to deny the claims of the list owners, meaning that it was just more false claims on the part of HAI.
Due to the previous harassment, I requested a hearing to have my side be heard by more objective people and this is the response I got back:
This makes it clear that HAI does not care to be fair in the least. HAI will do whatever it wants to do and will continue to be very biased and only support those that agree with their political views. They also feel the need to hide who they are.
In the past, John Maguire, one of the list owners, violated the HAI mission statement, violated the list rules and violated the HAI privacy rules by giving out information about me to others without my permission. One message I recently received mentions information which the person could only have if again my privacy was violated. The information was false, mainly because it only came from the side of the list owners and did not come from me at all.
So, if you want to be treated with respect and to be treated fairly, you need to stay away from HAI. I suspect some people are involved with HAI just for sex, since HAI seems to support and promote open sex, including, but not limited to poly relationships.
I attempted to post a message to the HAI norcal list, but it was rejected with the following bogus excuse:
Posting of your message titled "Re: [NorCal/Forum] Re: Emergency plans."
has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request:
"XXX, instead of "It is important to realize that" (absolute truth) how about "I don't think that" (your feelings). Similar for the rest of this. Give space for others to have an opinion too."
Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at:
This is an obvious example of the HAI norcal list owners abusing their position and harassing me. It is also clear that they have had no training in emergency services nor have they ever listened to anyone regarding disasters.
Perhaps they don't want to admit that there is anything which is a fact, not even gravity or that they world is round. You are supposed to word everything in a way to claim that instead of a fact, it is just an opinion, at least those that they choose to harass. They would prefer to abuse their position and harass me rather that admit that it is an absolute truth that the government can not instantly be there and that there are too few in government and too many civilians to deal with the situation. What part of what I said is not true and a fact?
They also said that it is similar in the rest of the message, but that is bogus too and has no basis in reality. I suspect that they don't expected to get called on the carpet when they abuse their position and perhaps they will get away with it, but at least I am informing others what type of people run HAI.
The complete original message:
You might want check to see if there is a CERT program in your community (Community Emergency Response Team). This can help you get prepared and to also assist others in your community.
In the recent fires (in my area), there were evacuations and possible evacuations. The police and the firearm department do not have the resources to pass out information flyers to prepare the people. There is also limited means of getting the information out since there is no list of email of the people in the affected area. This means that additional resources are needed, which in this case is CERT/DSW (Disaster Service Worker, advanced CERT). The CERT/DSW were called out, which included me even though I was still in the class. Our role was to go house to house to pass out the flyers and give people the information as what to do and what would happen should they need to evacuate.
Being involved in programs like this not only help you, but also help others in your community. The classes are free too, it just take time and also buying some stuff to be prepared.
If you don't have CERT in your area, then perhaps you can work to try to get it there. I can give you contact information since CERT in my area is considered a model and which other communities have copied.
It gets even funnier as I sent a email to complain about what they are doing and accidentally include the list on message. I got a rejection message which said:
I forwarded this direct, private message I received to another person on the list with some comments. Somehow the message got sent to the list owners. The other person claims that he did not intentionally send it to them, but might have accidentally sent it, along with a message to please delete the message if he did. This conflicts with the claim of the list owner that it was forwarded for their consideration. Based on what the person said and the track record of the list owners, I have to believe that the list owners are not telling the truth. The list dicators then complained that I forwarded the rejection message and claimed that it violated some sort of rule, which I can not find any such rule. I asked what rule I violated and where it is posted, but have only been met with silence. I guess they don't want to say. They also threaten me too.
What is really funny is that they are using a message which was inappropriately forwarded to them to complain that I forwarded the message. They do not seem to see the humor in that. What is also very clear is that they don't want others to know what they are doing. They seem to find it critical that they hide their actions. While they have a duty to protect my privacy, I do not have a duty to protect their privacy as it relates to me. I have never encountered people who seem to so focused on hiding things. Normally, if a person has done something wrong and got called on it, they are the ones who would not want to let the information get out since they would not want others to know what they have done. In this case, others think that the list owners are wrong and it is the list owners who don't want the information let out and don't want others to know what they have done. Typically people want to hide things when they are embarassed or ashamed of what they have done or are doing. So why are the HAI list dictators so focused on hiding their actions? What are they afraid of?
It really says a lot about HAI, especially since HAI refuses to do anything about the abuses of the list owners and also refuse to answer simple questions. What it comes down to is why would people want to be involved with the HAI Cult. It is rather unfortunate that the theory behind HAI is good, in practice it seems quite lacking. I would hope that bringing their dirty laundry to light would tend to get them to correct the problems and make HAI what it is claimed to me. Perhaps if enough people read this and push HAI to do the right thing, then HAI will become what it should be and what it claims to be. At least I still have hope of that.
Index for Insanity, Inc.
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